2021 Politics v 2.0

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User avatar 1376.DocZaius » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:29 pm


so the majority isn't far left
Skrong takeaway.
eh, kind of hard to not point out that someone who tried to prove me wrong actually does the opposite.
You asked for a study or a survey or something, I gave you one. If 77% of the Harvard faculty self-identify as "liberal" or "very liberal," yet you refuse to believe the majority of them are "far left," then you're willfully ignorant or possibly retarded.
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1377.9508 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:47 pm

Being liberal doesn’t make you far left, any more than being conservative makes you far right.
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9508 (Fuck auburn/Fuck auburn/Fuck auburn)

User avatar 1378.DocZaius » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:52 pm

Being liberal doesn’t make you far left, any more than being conservative makes you far right.
Tell me, are you an extremist?
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1379.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:09 pm

Being liberal doesn’t make you far left, any more than being conservative makes you far right.
Tell me, are you an extremist?
Not trying to be a smartass, but what's your definition of an extremist?

Part of it is someone who denies facts just because they don't support an extreme philosophy that they have. For example, a neo-nazi may deny that the Holocaust occurred.
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1380.evil gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:15 pm

Being liberal doesn’t make you far left, any more than being conservative makes you far right.
Tell me, are you an extremist?
Not trying to be a smartass, but what's your definition of an extremist?

Part of it is someone who denies facts just because they don't support an extreme philosophy that they have. For example, a neo-nazi may deny that the Holocaust occurred.
or people pushing socialism and communism when it has never worked and removes liberty.

the left has gone much further left - the current dem party is not that of Bill Clinton.
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User avatar 1381.DocZaius » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:17 pm

Being liberal doesn’t make you far left, any more than being conservative makes you far right.
Tell me, are you an extremist?
Not trying to be a smartass, but what's your definition of an extremist?

Part of it is someone who denies facts just because they don't support an extreme philosophy that they have. For example, a neo-nazi may deny that the Holocaust occurred.
Well, to your point, I don't know what definition, exactly we were using as "far left" in the above discussion - maybe we should have defined that. It seems obvious that college professors skew far to the left of the general public, though.

But my point in asking you if you are an extremist is that very few people will admit to being one. People like to think their views are closer to the center than they really are. So if someone is self-reporting as merely "liberal," there's a pretty good chance that his or her views are actually "very liberal." Same for conservatives.
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1382.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:22 pm



Tell me, are you an extremist?
Not trying to be a smartass, but what's your definition of an extremist?

Part of it is someone who denies facts just because they don't support an extreme philosophy that they have. For example, a neo-nazi may deny that the Holocaust occurred.
or people pushing socialism and communism when it has never worked and removes liberty.

the left has gone much further left - the current dem party is not that of Bill Clinton.
And what do you think of the current Republican party?
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1383.evil gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:57 pm



Not trying to be a smartass, but what's your definition of an extremist?

Part of it is someone who denies facts just because they don't support an extreme philosophy that they have. For example, a neo-nazi may deny that the Holocaust occurred.
or people pushing socialism and communism when it has never worked and removes liberty.

the left has gone much further left - the current dem party is not that of Bill Clinton.
And what do you think of the current Republican party?
It’s much more diverse than it used to be, there’s support for gay marriage, it remains a bulwark against bigger government, which I’ve seen first hand is damaging to individual freedom
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1384.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:03 pm


or people pushing socialism and communism when it has never worked and removes liberty.

the left has gone much further left - the current dem party is not that of Bill Clinton.
And what do you think of the current Republican party?
It’s much more diverse than it used to be, there’s support for gay marriage, it remains a bulwark against bigger government, which I’ve seen first hand is damaging to individual freedom
So, completely lacking extremism?
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1385.evil gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:12 pm

nope there is some extremism.

If you look at actual policies running from right to left, though, this administration has some extreme very positions in terms of the border, government spending, crime, etc. For example, how many actual people involved in terrorist orgs have been nominated for important positions in agencies? Compared to the Clinton Admin, or even Obama's its quite far left. Furthermore, the actual thought leaders -particularly young leaders - in the dem party are quite far left.
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1386.Tommy » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:14 pm

Biden is a borderline retard

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1387.evil gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:16 pm

I mean who would have ever dreamed of a law for having tampons in boys' bathrooms? These ideas weren't even fringe a few years ago.
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1388.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:07 pm

nope there is some extremism.

If you look at actual policies running from right to left, though, this administration has some extreme very positions in terms of the border, government spending, crime, etc. For example, how many actual people involved in terrorist orgs have been nominated for important positions in agencies? Compared to the Clinton Admin, or even Obama's its quite far left. Furthermore, the actual thought leaders -particularly young leaders - in the dem party are quite far left.
You're saying it does exist in the Republican party, though. You have a list for Democrats, what's your list for Republicans? I presume it's smaller, but it does exist, right?
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1389.evil gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:25 pm

Too much of an emphasis on abortion and other quasi religious issues (though less than in the past), defending confederate statues, being against vaccine passports. A lot of this stuff is surficial though and policy wise, the Dems have moved further left on more issues
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1390.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:33 pm

Too much of an emphasis on abortion and other quasi religious issues (though less than in the past), defending confederate statues, being against vaccine passports. A lot of this stuff is surficial though and policy wise, the Dems have moved further left on more issues
See, I guess that's where I differ. They've taken extreme positions on Elections, which I think are the core of our Democracy. Instead of trying to win them with policy which I would love to see, they cry foul when there is no foul to cry about.
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1391.evil gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:36 pm

Too much of an emphasis on abortion and other quasi religious issues (though less than in the past), defending confederate statues, being against vaccine passports. A lot of this stuff is surficial though and policy wise, the Dems have moved further left on more issues
See, I guess that's where I differ. They've taken extreme positions on Elections, which I think are the core of our Democracy. Instead of trying to win them with policy which I would love to see, they cry foul when there is no foul to cry about.
Sadly, it seems to be part of our system now. Many people said the 2016 election was illegitimate and that Trump was a Putin puppet. There’s a lot of misinformation on both sides.

Situations like the nyc mayoral primary don’t help people have faith.
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1392.52:20 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:40 pm

No way, 2020 is the absolute only time an election has been questioned!!!!!!
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1393.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:00 pm

No way, 2020 is the absolute only time an election has been questioned!!!!!!
Come on, Hillary wasn't on Twitter almost hourly saying the election was stolen. Trump took it to another level and you know it, and much of the Republican party followed that leadership like sheep, and still are.
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1394.evil gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:38 pm

Do you believe trump was Putin’s puppet
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1395.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:52 pm

Do you believe trump was Putin’s puppet
I believe Trump was influenced by Putin far more than any other President. Not sure I'd say puppet, but the Russians are our adversaries on the world stage and an autocrat like Putin should not have been treated so nicely by a sitting US President.

Now I answered your question, will you answer any of mine?
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User avatar 1396.DocZaius » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:58 pm

Interesting that we're discussing whether or not the major parties have moved more to the extremes. Kevin Drum (a noted liberal journalist) recently came up with some data indicating that Democrats have moved dramatically leftwards on social issues in the last 20 years whereas Republicans have moved only slightly to the right in the same time frame:

https://jabberwocking.com/if-you-hate-t ... -liberals/

https://jabberwocking.com/charts-of-the ... ince-2000/
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1397.Juggs » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:36 pm

Too much of an emphasis on abortion and other quasi religious issues (though less than in the past), defending confederate statues, being against vaccine passports. A lot of this stuff is surficial though and policy wise, the Dems have moved further left on more issues
See, I guess that's where I differ. They've taken extreme positions on Elections, which I think are the core of our Democracy. Instead of trying to win them with policy which I would love to see, they cry foul when there is no foul to cry about.
Sadly, it seems to be part of our system now. Many people said the 2016 election was illegitimate and that Trump was a Putin puppet. There’s a lot of misinformation on both sides.

Situations like the nyc mayoral primary don’t help people have faith.
Hanging Chad!!
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1398.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:16 pm

Interesting that we're discussing whether or not the major parties have moved more to the extremes. Kevin Drum (a noted liberal journalist) recently came up with some data indicating that Democrats have moved dramatically leftwards on social issues in the last 20 years whereas Republicans have moved only slightly to the right in the same time frame:

https://jabberwocking.com/if-you-hate-t ... -liberals/

https://jabberwocking.com/charts-of-the ... ince-2000/
That may be true. But my problem is that whether or not an election was stolen, isn't a left or right thing. But the Republican party has hung it's hat on this as an issue, and taken actions as if it were stolen, which has been shown over and over again to not be true. There's no evidence supporting it. This is something extremists do, not true conservatives who will look to make a better argument on policy for the next election.
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1399.Denver-Gator » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:28 pm



See, I guess that's where I differ. They've taken extreme positions on Elections, which I think are the core of our Democracy. Instead of trying to win them with policy which I would love to see, they cry foul when there is no foul to cry about.
Sadly, it seems to be part of our system now. Many people said the 2016 election was illegitimate and that Trump was a Putin puppet. There’s a lot of misinformation on both sides.

Situations like the nyc mayoral primary don’t help people have faith.
Hanging Chad!!
Are you trying to draw some false equivalency to what happened in 2000, to 2020? Because there's very little that is equivalent other than one side was butthurt by it. In 2001, the Electoral College vote went on, with some objections. In 2020, a mob invaded the Capitol that just happened to be from a Trump rally and the vote was delayed due to that. And yes, you have to totally have your head up Trump's butt if you don't think that rally and the incessant Election Stolen mantra had anything to do with that. And that you believe the "good" Capitol police just let people in.
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1400.evil gator » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:22 pm

Do you believe trump was Putin’s puppet
I believe Trump was influenced by Putin far more than any other President. Not sure I'd say puppet, but the Russians are our adversaries on the world stage and an autocrat like Putin should not have been treated so nicely by a sitting US President.

Now I answered your question, will you answer any of mine?
I continue to answer your repetitive questions. What is your evidence that trump was influenced by Putin?

What policies did trump enact that helped Putin? Putin needs resources to do his bad shit, and by us energy independence which trump fostered, it hurt Putin. Also opposing nordstream. Now Biden has reversed those, and there have been more serious hacking attacks. Putin has huge power over Europe - I agree autocrats shouldn’t get gifts like that- but it wasn’t from trump, his puppet

How exactly was Trump helpful to Putin?
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