future locked political thread - WWIII

Moderators: shutout, evs' Boytoy, Irish Mike

Post Reply

1.shutout » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:24 pm

yay missiles
Quote

User avatar 2.DocZaius » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:56 pm

I'm very disappointed that the Iron Sheikh hasn't tweeted about the recent troubles.
Quote

3.Denver-Gator » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:32 pm

I think "US Energy Security" is kind of a vague term. The worst Iran could do is probably attempt to blockade the Persian Gulf and maybe try to knock out more oil production sites in the Middle East. That would affect the global energy market in a negative way and ultimately the economy, but it also wouldn't turn the US into some sort of Mad Max land.
well yeah but look at gas prices now vs. other times shit has happened in the middle east -that's just one indicator. We are now a net exporter vs. importer which we always have been. we are way less susceptible to fluctuations and have to kowtow less to the Saudis and their ilk.

I know you loathe Trump to the nth degree, but I would have thought that an energy nerd like you would get that.
I don't know why you keep saying this. I'm not saying that Iran responding in the worst case is the end of the world, and I haven't blasted Trump ordering the killing of Soleimani.

I do believe that Trump is a danger to the country for a number of other reasons that fall into the following three categories:

1. Rule of law and the Constitution
2. Taking Russia's word over folks like the CIA, NSA, FBI etc....
3. Lying constantly enough that almost half the country thinks whatever he says is true. Sounds really weird, but we see it here.

I think the above concerns are legitimate, and not loathing but rather responding to actions and words that are out of line.
Quote

User avatar 4.MoralityULack » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:51 am

Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah "worst briefing I've had on a military issue" during his nine years in the Senate.
‪Lee called the way the briefing played out "un-American" and "completely unacceptable," given that the administration suggested that Congress shouldn't have a role in approving Iran military action.
Republican SenRand Paul of Kentucky "an insult to the Constitution."

"In the briefing and in public, this administration has argued that the vote to topple Saddam Hussein in 2002 applies to military action in Iraq. That is absurd," Paul told Blitzer. "Nobody in their right mind -- with a straight face, with an ounce of honesty -- can argue when Congress voted to go after Saddam Hussein in 2002 that (they) authorized military force against an Iranian general 18 years later."
Quote
Trump got his deferments for the wrong thing. They shouldn't have been for his disappearing, imaginary bone spurs - they should have been for that yellow streak down his back. - Sen. Duckworth - Pilot who lost both legs in Iraq

5.Denver-Gator » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:38 am

Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah "worst briefing I've had on a military issue" during his nine years in the Senate.
‪Lee called the way the briefing played out "un-American" and "completely unacceptable," given that the administration suggested that Congress shouldn't have a role in approving Iran military action.
Republican SenRand Paul of Kentucky "an insult to the Constitution."

"In the briefing and in public, this administration has argued that the vote to topple Saddam Hussein in 2002 applies to military action in Iraq. That is absurd," Paul told Blitzer. "Nobody in their right mind -- with a straight face, with an ounce of honesty -- can argue when Congress voted to go after Saddam Hussein in 2002 that (they) authorized military force against an Iranian general 18 years later."
I heard some of this on the radio. I'd like to hear the same criticism when discussing Ukraine.
Quote

6.HG 2.0 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:23 pm

I think "US Energy Security" is kind of a vague term. The worst Iran could do is probably attempt to blockade the Persian Gulf and maybe try to knock out more oil production sites in the Middle East. That would affect the global energy market in a negative way and ultimately the economy, but it also wouldn't turn the US into some sort of Mad Max land.
well yeah but look at gas prices now vs. other times shit has happened in the middle east -that's just one indicator. We are now a net exporter vs. importer which we always have been. we are way less susceptible to fluctuations and have to kowtow less to the Saudis and their ilk.

I know you loathe Trump to the nth degree, but I would have thought that an energy nerd like you would get that.
I don't know why you keep saying this. I'm not saying that Iran responding in the worst case is the end of the world, and I haven't blasted Trump ordering the killing of Soleimani.

I do believe that Trump is a danger to the country for a number of other reasons that fall into the following three categories:

1. Rule of law and the Constitution
2. Taking Russia's word over folks like the CIA, NSA, FBI etc....
3. Lying constantly enough that almost half the country thinks whatever he says is true. Sounds really weird, but we see it here.

I think the above concerns are legitimate, and not loathing but rather responding to actions and words that are out of line.
And your previous hallowed leader never lied? Almost half the country thought whatever HE said was true. In fact vodun still quotes his messiah on a daily basis.....

https://www.politifact.com/personalitie ... se/?page=1
Quote

7.rampart » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:20 pm

well yeah but look at gas prices now vs. other times shit has happened in the middle east -that's just one indicator. We are now a net exporter vs. importer which we always have been. we are way less susceptible to fluctuations and have to kowtow less to the Saudis and their ilk.

I know you loathe Trump to the nth degree, but I would have thought that an energy nerd like you would get that.
I don't know why you keep saying this. I'm not saying that Iran responding in the worst case is the end of the world, and I haven't blasted Trump ordering the killing of Soleimani.

I do believe that Trump is a danger to the country for a number of other reasons that fall into the following three categories:

1. Rule of law and the Constitution
2. Taking Russia's word over folks like the CIA, NSA, FBI etc....
3. Lying constantly enough that almost half the country thinks whatever he says is true. Sounds really weird, but we see it here.

I think the above concerns are legitimate, and not loathing but rather responding to actions and words that are out of line.
And your previous hallowed leader never lied? Almost half the country thought whatever HE said was true. In fact vodun still quotes his messiah on a daily basis.....

https://www.politifact.com/personalitie ... se/?page=1
Obama - 4 pages of false statements through 8 years

Trump - 14 pages prior to end of first term.


Good job HG
Quote

User avatar 8.MoralityULack » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:41 pm

I think Obama was an pretty good president. He pulled us out of the Bush depression. He cut the Bush deficit to 1/3 of what it was. He cut a trillion from spending (and wanted to cut 4 but republicans blocked it). He had and has the longest period of growth in American history. Trump bitched but he cant match Obamas job creation month over month much less total. He made health care available to all even those with preexisting conditions - which is the biggest thing to me. He killed Osama and Quaddafi - the two biggest real terrorists. Toppled Kims missiles. Got a nuclear deal with Iran. Sanctioned Russia instead of fawning over their leader.

But I dont recall quoting him ever. There was nothing notable. Just the facts maam. With Trump every utterance from day one crowds to why he assassinated a foreign leader is a gumbo of insane megawhoppers thrown together in a nonsensical way.
Quote
Trump got his deferments for the wrong thing. They shouldn't have been for his disappearing, imaginary bone spurs - they should have been for that yellow streak down his back. - Sen. Duckworth - Pilot who lost both legs in Iraq

9.HG 2.0 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:01 pm



I don't know why you keep saying this. I'm not saying that Iran responding in the worst case is the end of the world, and I haven't blasted Trump ordering the killing of Soleimani.

I do believe that Trump is a danger to the country for a number of other reasons that fall into the following three categories:

1. Rule of law and the Constitution
2. Taking Russia's word over folks like the CIA, NSA, FBI etc....
3. Lying constantly enough that almost half the country thinks whatever he says is true. Sounds really weird, but we see it here.

I think the above concerns are legitimate, and not loathing but rather responding to actions and words that are out of line.
And your previous hallowed leader never lied? Almost half the country thought whatever HE said was true. In fact vodun still quotes his messiah on a daily basis.....

https://www.politifact.com/personalitie ... se/?page=1
Obama - 4 pages of false statements through 8 years

Trump - 14 pages prior to end of first term.


Good job HG
That’s only the highlights. If you went back and documented every campaign promise every speech Obama would be right up there. To say otherwise would be disingenuous at the very least....

People have been wringing their hands at everything trump has said or written. It’s published and twisted more than anyone I’ve remembered.... so don’t act all high and mighty thinking that Obama was a perfect jewel. He was far from it, just got a pass from the mainstream media
Quote

10.evil gator » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:31 pm

yes I know the reasons you don't like him Denver, you've mentioned that a few times, as I noted. The fact that Trump's actions (appointment to FERC, dereg efforts, etc) have led to increased energy security is a fact and should be acknowledged.

I had problems with some of Obama's domestic agenda, but still admit he did a bunch of stuff I liked, such as getting bin laden :beatsme: you should be able to see some positive with the negative. all I'm saying
Quote

User avatar 11.Irish Mike » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:35 pm

Quote

12.evil gator » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:46 pm

that guy doesn't seem like a creep at all!!!!
Quote

13.9508 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:48 pm

In this day and age, I’ll wait and see what comes out.
Quote

14.evil gator » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:57 pm

In this day and age, I’ll wait and see what comes out.
sure thing kiddie fiddler
Quote

User avatar 15.MoralityULack » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:00 pm

Before the elections we knew he sexually assaulting dozens of women and bragged about it on TV, dumped 3 wives to trade up, cheated on them, beat and raped his wife after they separated, was sued for sexually assaulting one of Epstein's 13 year olds, was charged by federal state and local governments for racist business practices repeatedly, called for a lynching of people that were later proven innocent and said they still should be lynched, bought his way out of service, mocked the soldiers who served and called their wives whores, got a mysterious $400M possibly from the Russian mob, got his klan dads ill gotten money through a tax evasion scheme, was the first president since Ike not to show his taxes, proudly called himself the king of debt, lied constantly and asked followers to beat up opponents at rallys....

That made me think he isnt a good person.

Once he got elected he increased deficits that were just cut by a trillion dollars, has been worse at jobs than his predecessor who he railed against, started a trade war, we learned 17 of his people met 251 times with Russian spies, he divulged secrets, we know he asked foreign governments to intervene in our elections, has said he is above the law and refuses to answer to Congress as the constitution requires, tried to destroy the FBI and CIA, used the office to enrich himself and his family, he has tried to pass laws that treat people differently by religion, tried to take healthcare from those with preexisting conditions, supported a serial child rapist for senate, took away gay rights, pardoned racists, traitors, and nazi militiamen, made of one of only two nations on earth not working to reduce global warming, sent refugee children to for profit prisons where many have died, inspired mass murders of brown people, he is letting Kim build nukes, broken the treaty that keeps Iran from nukes, and never met a despot he didnt fawn over, especially his adored master Putin.

Liar, thief, draft dodger, wife beater, sex offender, pedophile, white supremacist, religious bigot, fascist, totalitarian, TRAITOR.

On the other hand he got rid of some regulations.
Quote
Trump got his deferments for the wrong thing. They shouldn't have been for his disappearing, imaginary bone spurs - they should have been for that yellow streak down his back. - Sen. Duckworth - Pilot who lost both legs in Iraq

16.evil gator » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:19 pm

weird the new climate change legislation dropped by the House doesn't include a carbon tax...but it looks like it would shut down a lot of energy production (and require importing) so there's that!

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... al-by-2050
Quote

17.shutout » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:33 pm

buncha outlets reporting it's likely Iran shot down the plane. yoiks.
Quote

18.evil gator » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:39 pm

ruh roh
Quote

User avatar 19.RIP » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:50 pm

The Pentagon is saying it was likely an accident from Iranian SAM missile systems.
Quote

20.Denver-Gator » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:33 pm

well yeah but look at gas prices now vs. other times shit has happened in the middle east -that's just one indicator. We are now a net exporter vs. importer which we always have been. we are way less susceptible to fluctuations and have to kowtow less to the Saudis and their ilk.

I know you loathe Trump to the nth degree, but I would have thought that an energy nerd like you would get that.
I don't know why you keep saying this. I'm not saying that Iran responding in the worst case is the end of the world, and I haven't blasted Trump ordering the killing of Soleimani.

I do believe that Trump is a danger to the country for a number of other reasons that fall into the following three categories:

1. Rule of law and the Constitution
2. Taking Russia's word over folks like the CIA, NSA, FBI etc....
3. Lying constantly enough that almost half the country thinks whatever he says is true. Sounds really weird, but we see it here.

I think the above concerns are legitimate, and not loathing but rather responding to actions and words that are out of line.
And your previous hallowed leader never lied? Almost half the country thought whatever HE said was true. In fact vodun still quotes his messiah on a daily basis.....

https://www.politifact.com/personalitie ... se/?page=1
Why are you posting something about Obama? He's not my "previously hallowed leader".

I guess, if I were to identify someone who came to "hallowed" status with regards to Presidents in my mind, that would be Ronald Reagan.

Let's compare Reagan and Trump with the above.

1. Rule of law and the Constitution

Maybe Iran-Contra could be a parallel to this Ukraine thing with regards to this. But if Reagan was guilty of something here, it certainly wasn't done to damage a political rival.

And he certainly didn't obstruct Congress to the level that Trump has.

2. Taking Russia's word over folks like the CIA, NSA, FBI etc....

There is no fucking comparison here. "Trust but verify". Reagan worked well with Gorby, and ultimately it led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. But he certainly trusted more his own intelligence assets and organization to "verify".

3. Lying constantly enough that almost half the country thinks whatever he says is true. Sounds really weird, but we see it here.

All presidents lie to some extent. I'm sure Reagan lied at times. But notice I said "constantly". By no means did Reagan lie to the extent Trump does, and about so many things that matter.
Quote

User avatar 21.RIP » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:34 pm

Folks keep forgetting Denver is a Pub.
Quote

22.shutout » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:35 pm

Folks keep forgetting Denver is a Pub.
and gay!
Quote

User avatar 23.RIP » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:41 pm

Extremely.
Quote

24.PG. » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:45 pm

Trump must have been lying when he said he believed Putin over the intelligence agencies since he is constantly lying.
Quote

25.Denver-Gator » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:10 pm

Trump must have been lying when he said he believed Putin over the intelligence agencies since he is constantly lying.
Notice I didn't say everything was a lie. Certainly Trump speaks truthfully at times. But the constant lying questions the credibility of anything he says. Certainly Reagan was far more credible than Trump. Another quality I like to see in a Republican president, credibility
Quote
Sort by

« Sports, Entertainment, and Everything Else